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deportation

On Lawyer & Legal » Immigration Law

45,076 words with 25 Comments; publish: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:50:00 GMT; (800171.88, « »)

if one gets deported from the US (because of overstay), will one still

get a chance applying to Canadian skill worker immigration?

--

Posted via http://britishexpats.com

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  • 25 Comments
    • Thehelper wrote: "http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com> wrote in message news:BC1B8779.23186%newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com ... in a recent article, webgirl (member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said: well, this situation happened to one of my friend here in the US. He is still fighting/appealing the deportation order (for overstaying, but no crimes committed). Umm...I hate to tell you this, but overstaying a visa IS a crime. If it wasn't a crime, do you think they'd be deporting him? well, i hate to break the news to you. but you know nothing of the USA#1 legal system. Overstaying visa is not a crime but administrative violation. By overstaying certain visa you are not breaking criminal law. this is very simple concept.

      My God! For once he's almost right ... It IS an administrative

      violation for which you can be removed, but it is a crime, but one which

      is dealt with by administrative action and not the criminal justice

      system, which is why the USA gets away with its "Guilty until Proven

      Innocent" immigration laws. In terms of humane treatment, that sure

      isn't #1.

      #1; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:17:00 GMT
    • "Thehelper" <ex.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.email.com> wrote in message news:<vvlla2dsfbrubc.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.corp.supernews.com>...

      WebCrawler is just an unsuccessful US-wannabe. That will explain you all his answers

      It takes one, to know one, isn't it?

      #2; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:18:00 GMT
    • honestly, iamnotamerican, why are you taking this thread so personally.

      This is not an argument, i simply have a question, and this thread is

      suddently turning it into an ego trip. I really appreciate all the other

      people's polite replies and please don't ruin this forum by being the

      rude one. Immigration is never a simple, direct issue. If it is so

      obvious, why are there so many immigration lawyers and many of them

      specializing in deportation cases? Please think before you reply and try

      to make this room a pleasant environment for all.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #3; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:00:00 GMT
    • Which of the following would you rather do:

      1. Apply from the US where your entire application may be returned, or asked

      for further proofs.

      Trigger an interview, keep asking for additional docs, lengthy security and

      background checks, danger of being deported from the US and thus losing your

      application altogether

      OR

      2. Apply from home country where the application is guaranteed to be

      accepted (assuming other requirements are met).

      No need for visa in case of interview.

      Always in valid status.

      Easier background and educational verification

      and many other benefits.

      I think this is an easy choice, if the person is really serious about making

      Canada the permanent home.

      If the person's intention is to somehow stay in N. America and find a

      backdoor entry into the US at a later point, then it is another matter.

      "Cicero" <member18614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com> wrote in message

      news:1146770.1073160269.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.britishexpats.com... Sorry, but these two guys simplly can't understand and they have a very limited picture of the situation. Let me try to explain one more time and elaborate. iamnotamerican.com wrote: "You're probably one of these sus immigration 'consultants' (no offence to Andrew and all other honest consultants out there) who take fees for lost causes and keep telling them that they should try and not give up (as long as you keep getting your fees, that is)." As always, the iamnotamerican.com guy is very bizzare as it is his web site. Again, you are again DEAD WRONG as your many other conclusions are. I am an immigrant to Canada (I am NOT professional or semi- professional immigration consultant nor I have any intention of being it) and want all the best to every single immigrant - regardless of their status anywhere. (The 8 million undocumented immigrants in the US are NOT criminals due beign undocumented.) People who listned to advices of some "know-it-all's" and some "consultants" had never applied since they have had advised them not to apply; they have just bleow 75 points, earlier in the previous years. Now, many of them betwean 67 to 75 points are enjoying or are very close of enjoying life in Canada. No one can predict what things can change - in the life and in the process - so it is smarter to try to apply than to be desperate and affraid of what can go wrong and why a person can be refused. The whole deportation case can be won, or other amnesty laws (possible qualified amnesty by Bush might be proposed soon) or many other things... I am not saying that all or any of these things will happen, I am saying that life is changing and people are looking to the negative sides. Next it is not correct that the Canadina consulate always asks for the proof of the status. Even if that is the case (and it is NOT in ALL situation) the person in case might have the document to prove it since the deportation proceedings might go on and person has the right documents with it. You keep forgeting DIFFERENT SCENARIOS - that you don't know - and you are fixated on your own limited knowledge of proceedings. Interpretation requires inteligence and not limited interpretations like those two previous "wanna-be's". IGNORE "Nay-sayers"!!! They are everywhere. How many things were not done because of Nay-sayers!? How many people are succesfull despite of all their negativity that is camouphlaged in realism since they were motivated by it!? Webgirl, I am rooting for your friend to win the cases in both places and choos where you want to go. BEST WISHES! -- Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #4; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:27:00 GMT
    • in a recent article, Cicero (member18614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said:

      First - going back to begging of the thread please, abstain in the future teaching anyone about the etiquette if you are breaking the etiquette yourself at the first place. Webgirl performed, apparently, the search and asked for the specific questions; than she asked about the relevant thread - with no answer.

      You're a pedantic thing, aren't you? In case you didn't notice (and

      it's obvious you didn't, obviously because you were so busy looking for

      something to criticise me about), she certainly didn't make it obvious that

      she had searched previously, and when she wrote that she did, I

      congratulated her and apologised for my assumption based on what she had

      written.

      You should answer her question without going to preach and without answering specific requests, after you dared to preach to someone about etiquette.

      What are you going on about? I DID answer the question.

      Second, if someone is in the proceedings than, obviously, the case is not final; we can not determine someone's guilt if the legal process is not completely done.

      I hate to tell you this, but the 'in proceedings' element didn't come to

      light until about the THIRD post from this person. It seems the only

      'proceeding' taking place now is an appeal of the deportation notice. Not

      an appeal of the fact this person was illegally in the USA. Not an appeal

      of the fact this person overstayed their visa. You want to know WHY that's

      not 'proceeding' right now? It's because if the person was NOT out of

      status, they would have been able to prove it and it certainly wouldn't have

      got this far, let alone to the point of a deportation order.

      There is a legal process and presumption of innocence must be esteemed, as well as the right for the appeal and trial. According to the writer above it is enough that a person is in the proceedings and automatically he is a criminal. Off course he is not.

      Right now the person is apparently appealing a deportation order. He

      will lose, because when it comes to immigration, you're either out of status

      or you're not. If you're not out of status, you can prove it. If this

      person is so 'innocent', then why didn't the original post say that? Why

      didn't this person prove he was not out of status? Why did a deportation

      notice get awarded, if this person was not out of status.

      Next, the crime, implicitly, is not committed, just by someone overstaying a visa. Yes, technically the laws are broken

      So, which is it? It is a crime or it isn't a crime? If laws are

      broken, then implicitly it is a crime. And 'just overstaying a visa' is a

      crime.

      but can you think about situations that someone might have been ill,

      Would have been raised prior to the deportation hearing as a defence and

      if you notice, the original post didn't say anything about mitigating

      circumstances.

      or under persecution in the country,

      Would have been raised prior to the deportation hearing as a defence and

      if you notice, the original post didn't say anything about mitigating

      circumstances.

      or many other life situations.

      Would have been raised prior to the deportation hearing as a defence and

      if you notice, the original post didn't say anything about mitigating

      circumstances.

      So, the whole immigrant situation needs to be considered. For example, to help understand - if someone breaks a window - yes, he has technically broken the law. However, can you sentence a person for breaking a window if the breaking of the window was his only way from the house under the fire if that was his escape from death.

      However, if he knew about the fire starting (even accidentally) and did

      nothing to stop it from becoming bigger and more dangerous, then he would

      have been responsible for replacing the window AND making right all the

      other damage caused as a result of the blaze.

      Finally, there is no need to jump hastily to conclusions since you don't know enough about the case.

      Funny...you seem to be doing that. You're throwing in 'what if'

      scenarios to support your 'side'.

      Until there is chance, there are realistic chances for different outcomes the persons, in my opinion, should try and not give up.

      That's your opinion. Mine is, obviously, different. I certainly am not

      a pessimist, but if you read the original post, it was asking if being

      deported from a country would affect immigration to another country. That

      was it. None of these other 'what if' situations you raise. Therefore,

      based on the original post, MY answer was accurate. Whether you like that

      or not, I honestly don't care. The truth hurts.

      You, on the other hand, seem to be giving people false hope. You

      probably take part in every chain letter that comes out because there is a

      chance you MAY make some money. You're probably one of these sus

      immigration 'consultants' (no offence to Andrew and all other honest

      consultants out there) who take fees for lost causes and keep telling them

      that they should try and not give up (as long as you keep getting your fees,

      that is).

      Don't bother replying to this post with additional 'information' or

      scenarios not raised in the original post. I won't reply because there's

      just no pleasing your kind on newsgroups.

      Happy new year to all.

      --

      Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.

      The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN

      Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com .

      New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available.

      http://www.iamnotamerican.com

      Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #5; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 09:26:00 GMT
    • in a recent article, Cicero (member18614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said:

      Think a bit harder! If a person is in proceedings, he is not convincted. If the situation is different than ... but it is NOT!

      Think a bit harder...if he had a valid visa, he wouldn't be going

      through these proceedings now, would he? If he had a valid visa, he would

      have just gone "look...here's my visa, now go away". But he didn't.

      Therefore, he committed a crime (federal immigration crime) and now he is

      being deported.

      He has a right to fair proceedings and possible trail. He has a right to defend himself. There is, realistically, nothing to loose in applying, as I said earlier.

      There is, realistically, nothing to be gained. Unless you want to waste

      your application fees, that is. He can't apply from within the US, he would

      not be able to apply from within Canada and the only way he could apply is

      from his home country. Of course, when he leaves the USA, the US government

      will consider him as having deported status and therefore, his application

      for immigration to Canada would be tainted.

      Quit looking at the world through rose coloured glasses. He has

      obviously broken immigration laws to another country. Maybe he hasn't been

      *convicted* but immigration is pretty straight forward...you're either legal

      - and if you were legal you could prove it - or illegal. According to the

      original post, he is out of status, therefore he is ILLEGAL, and therefore

      has committed an immigration related crime.

      --

      Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.

      The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN

      Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com .

      New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available.

      http://www.iamnotamerican.com

      Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #6; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:50:00 GMT
    • Wow That is called an alternative!? Painting one alternative almost

      all black; and other almost all rosy (oh, how the life would be simple

      if choices are so obvious and dichotomous) ? Goebbles might have a

      follower in propaganda method. :))))

      === Original Words ===

      Webcrawler

      Which of the following would you rather do:

      1. Apply from the US where your entire application may be returned, or asked

      for further proofs.

      Trigger an interview, keep asking for additional docs, lengthy security and

      background checks, danger of being deported from the US and thus losing your

      application altogether

      OR

      2. Apply from home country where the application is guaranteed to be

      accepted (assuming other requirements are met).

      No need for visa in case of interview.

      Always in valid status.

      Easier background and educational verification

      and many other benefits.

      I think this is an easy choice, if the person is really serious about making

      Canada the permanent home.

      If the person's intention is to somehow stay in N. America and find a

      backdoor entry into the US at a later point, then it is another matter.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #7; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:13:00 GMT
    • First - going back to begging of the thread please, abstain in the

      future teaching anyone about the etiquette if you are breaking the

      etiquette yourself at the first place. Webgirl performed, apparently,

      the search and asked for the specific questions; than she asked about

      the relevant thread - with no answer. You should answer her question

      without going to preach and without answering specific requests, after

      you dared to preach to someone about etiquette.

      Second, if someone is in the proceedings than, obviously, the case

      is not final; we can not determine someone's guilt if the legal

      process is not completely done. There is a legal process and

      presumption of innocence must be esteemed, as well as the right for

      the appeal and trial. According to the writer above it is enough

      that a person is in the proceedings and automatically he is a

      criminal. Off course he is not.

      Next, the crime, implicitly, is not committed, just by someone

      overstaying a visa. Yes, technically the laws are broken but can you

      think about situations that someone might have been ill, or under

      persecution in the country, or many other life situations. So, the whole

      immigrant situation needs to be considered. For example, to help

      understand - if someone breaks a window - yes, he has technically broken

      the law. However, can you sentence a person for breaking a window if

      the breaking of the window was his only way from the house under the

      fire if that was his escape from death.

      Finally, there is no need to jump hastily to conclusions since you don't

      know enough about the case. Until there is chance, there are realistic

      chances for different outcomes the persons, in my opinion, should try

      and not give up.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #8; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 23:57:00 GMT
    • If the deportation proceedings have been initiated because the person is

      out-of-status in the USA, then he/she is not eligible to apply from CHC,

      Buffalo anyway.

      Buffalo asks for proof of current legal status in the form of current I-94

      copy.

      "Cicero" <member18614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com> wrote in message

      news:1144988.1073075774.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.britishexpats.com... He did not comit any crimes and he was not deported! I don't think that he will have any problems if he applies to Canada due to deportation proceedings. Please, ignore people who jump too early to conclusions. No one can tell that he will have - or not have problems if he applies. The best thing is to apply - if other things are fine - and ignore pesimists and sceptics. -- Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #9; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 17:26:00 GMT
    • He did not comit any crimes and he was not deported!

      I don't think that he will have any problems if he applies to Canada due

      to deportation proceedings. Please, ignore people who jump too early to

      conclusions.

      No one can tell that he will have - or not have problems if he applies.

      The best thing is to apply - if other things are fine - and ignore

      pesimists and sceptics.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #10; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:36:00 GMT
    • "webgirl" <member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com> wrote in message

      news:1146557.1073152831.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.britishexpats.com honestly, iamnotamerican, why are you taking this thread so personally. This is not an argument, i simply have a question, and this thread is suddently turning it into an ego trip. I really appreciate all the other people's polite replies and please don't ruin this forum by being the rude one. Immigration is never a simple, direct issue. If it is so obvious, why are there so many immigration lawyers and many of them specializing in deportation cases? Please think before you reply and try to make this room a pleasant environment for all.

      Webgirl, I think you would be better off not engaging in any flamewar with

      this jerk Trevor Wilson aka Trikky T. He has a real history on the Usenet

      for his impolite and personal attack on others.

      To answer your original question, your friend will not be automatically

      disqualified for Canadian immigration just because he has a deportation

      order. But it will make his case more complicated. He just needs to evaluate

      whether wasting application processing fee (CAD 550) is worth the try. In

      fact, if he doesn't see him leaving USA very soon, I don't see a reason not

      to give a try. But it would be worthwhile to seek professional assistance to

      file his case.

      --

      #11; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:45:00 GMT
    • Cicero does not seem to be "getting" it.

      Irrespective of the result of the deportation proceedings appeal (which,

      BTW, can take a long time to resolve), the fact remains that the person in

      question is out-of-status in the US.

      This at least was stated in the first post (webgirl clearly says : "because

      of overstay").

      Without any further argument, that fact by itself is enough to make the

      person ineligible to apply via a Canadian consulate in the US.

      All the other arguments, hypothetical scenarios, and presumptions are (as

      the Americans say) 'gravy'.

      The meat of the matter is that the person is out-of-status in the US.

      While it may allow the person to apply for a US Green Card (under certain

      circumstances) Canadian consulate asks for proof of valid status in the US,

      which this person does not have.

      Even if the application is indeed accepted and processing starts, there are

      several hurdles on the way.

      The visa officer will most likely construe the application as an attempt by

      the applicant to gain a "backdoor" entry into the US.

      An interview is also very likely, which adds additional time.

      Background security checks will be more thorough and time-consuming.

      Meanwhile, if the person loses the deportation appeal and has to leave the

      US, the application is pretty much gone if he is asked to appear for an

      interview (after deportation he cannot expect to receive a US visa anywhere

      in the world).

      Of course, the final judgement rests with the person himself and his lawyer

      (if he has one).

      "http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com> wrote in

      message news:BC1C3925.231DC%newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com ... in a recent article, Cicero (member18614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said: First - going back to begging of the thread - please, abstain in the future teaching anyone about the etiquette if you are breaking the etiquette yourself at the first place. Webgirl performed, apparently, the search and asked for the specific questions; than she asked about the relevant thread - with no answer. You're a pedantic thing, aren't you? In case you didn't notice (and it's obvious you didn't, obviously because you were so busy looking for something to criticise me about), she certainly didn't make it obvious

      that she had searched previously, and when she wrote that she did, I congratulated her and apologised for my assumption based on what she had written. You should answer her question without going to preach and without answering specific requests, after you dared to preach to someone about etiquette. What are you going on about? I DID answer the question. Second, if someone is in the proceedings than, obviously, the case is not final; we can not determine someone's guilt if the legal process is not completely done. I hate to tell you this, but the 'in proceedings' element didn't come

      to light until about the THIRD post from this person. It seems the only 'proceeding' taking place now is an appeal of the deportation notice. Not an appeal of the fact this person was illegally in the USA. Not an appeal of the fact this person overstayed their visa. You want to know WHY

      that's not 'proceeding' right now? It's because if the person was NOT out of status, they would have been able to prove it and it certainly wouldn't

      have got this far, let alone to the point of a deportation order. There is a legal process and presumption of innocence must be esteemed, as well as the right for the appeal and trial. According to the writer above it is enough that a person is in the proceedings and automatically he is a criminal. Off course he is not. Right now the person is apparently appealing a deportation order. He will lose, because when it comes to immigration, you're either out of

      status or you're not. If you're not out of status, you can prove it. If this person is so 'innocent', then why didn't the original post say that? Why didn't this person prove he was not out of status? Why did a deportation notice get awarded, if this person was not out of status. Next, the crime, implicitly, is not committed, just by someone overstaying a visa. Yes, technically the laws are broken So, which is it? It is a crime or it isn't a crime? If laws are broken, then implicitly it is a crime. And 'just overstaying a visa' is a crime. but can you think about situations that someone might have been ill, Would have been raised prior to the deportation hearing as a defence

      and if you notice, the original post didn't say anything about mitigating circumstances. or under persecution in the country, Would have been raised prior to the deportation hearing as a defence

      and if you notice, the original post didn't say anything about mitigating circumstances. or many other life situations. Would have been raised prior to the deportation hearing as a defence

      and if you notice, the original post didn't say anything about mitigating circumstances. So, the whole immigrant situation needs to be considered. For example, to help understand - if someone breaks a window - yes, he has technically broken the law. However, can you sentence a person for breaking a window if the breaking of the window was his only way from the house under the fire if that was his escape from death. However, if he knew about the fire starting (even accidentally) and

      did nothing to stop it from becoming bigger and more dangerous, then he would have been responsible for replacing the window AND making right all the other damage caused as a result of the blaze. Finally, there is no need to jump hastily to conclusions since you don't know enough about the case. Funny...you seem to be doing that. You're throwing in 'what if' scenarios to support your 'side'. Until there is chance, there are realistic chances for different outcomes the persons, in my opinion, should try and not give up. That's your opinion. Mine is, obviously, different. I certainly am

      not a pessimist, but if you read the original post, it was asking if being deported from a country would affect immigration to another country. That was it. None of these other 'what if' situations you raise. Therefore, based on the original post, MY answer was accurate. Whether you like that or not, I honestly don't care. The truth hurts. You, on the other hand, seem to be giving people false hope. You probably take part in every chain letter that comes out because there is a chance you MAY make some money. You're probably one of these sus immigration 'consultants' (no offence to Andrew and all other honest consultants out there) who take fees for lost causes and keep telling them that they should try and not give up (as long as you keep getting your

      fees, that is). Don't bother replying to this post with additional 'information' or scenarios not raised in the original post. I won't reply because there's just no pleasing your kind on newsgroups. Happy new year to all. -- Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages. The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com . New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available. http://www.iamnotamerican.com Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #12; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:04:00 GMT
    • in a recent article, webgirl (member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said:

      if one gets deported from the US (because of overstay), will one still get a chance applying to Canadian skill worker immigration?

      Firstly, a little internet etiquette for you. :-) READ newsgroups

      before posting, to see if your question has already been answered. In this

      case, it has, to some extent.

      Secondly, your answer: While you certainly can apply, the fact you were

      deported will weigh negatively against your application. If you are unable

      to figure out why, the basic answer is simple. You break immigration laws

      in one country, it is obviously relevant to immigration to another country.

      Good luck.

      --

      Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.

      The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN

      Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com .

      New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available.

      http://www.iamnotamerican.com

      Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #13; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:18:00 GMT
    • in a recent article, webgirl (member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said:

      well, this situation happened to one of my friend here in the US. He is still fighting/appealing the deportation order (for overstaying, but no crimes committed).

      Umm...I hate to tell you this, but overstaying a visa IS a crime. If it

      wasn't a crime, do you think they'd be deporting him?

      I wonder if he can still go to Canada or will he need a lawyer to apply and explain for him? Anyone has any suggestions?

      He would have a very rough time until this matter is resolved.

      --

      Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.

      The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN

      Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com .

      New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available.

      http://www.iamnotamerican.com

      Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #14; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:40:00 GMT
    • "http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com> wrote in

      message news:BC1B8779.23186%newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com ... in a recent article, webgirl (member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said: well, this situation happened to one of my friend here in the US. He is still fighting/appealing the deportation order (for overstaying, but no crimes committed). Umm...I hate to tell you this, but overstaying a visa IS a crime. If

      it wasn't a crime, do you think they'd be deporting him?

      well, i hate to break the news to you. but you know nothing of the USA#1

      legal system. Overstaying visa is not a crime but administrative violation.

      By overstaying certain visa you are not breaking criminal law. this is very

      simple concept.

      of course in canada this is probably not so, but i do not know much about

      Sharia law that is why i will not involve myself in this discussion.

      #15; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:31:00 GMT
    • "Cicero" <member18614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com> wrote in message

      news:1149341.1073294013.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.britishexpats.com... Wow. That is called an alternative!? Painting one alternative - almost all black; and other - almost all rosy (oh, how the life would be simple if choices are so obvious and dichotomous) ? Goebbles might have a follower in propaganda method. :))))

      WebCrawler is just an unsuccessful US-wannabe. That will explain you all

      his answers

      #16; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:33:00 GMT
    • Your application may also be construed as an attempt to gain a "back-door"

      re-entry into the USA.

      "http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com> wrote in

      message news:BC1A4AF3.230AE%newsgroup.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.iam_not_american.com ... in a recent article, webgirl (member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said: if one gets deported from the US (because of overstay), will one still get a chance applying to Canadian skill worker immigration? Firstly, a little internet etiquette for you. :-) READ newsgroups before posting, to see if your question has already been answered. In

      this case, it has, to some extent. Secondly, your answer: While you certainly can apply, the fact you

      were deported will weigh negatively against your application. If you are

      unable to figure out why, the basic answer is simple. You break immigration laws in one country, it is obviously relevant to immigration to another

      country. Good luck. -- Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages. The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com . New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available. http://www.iamnotamerican.com Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #17; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 07:23:00 GMT
    • Sorry, but these two guys simplly can't understand and they have a very

      limited picture of the situation. Let me try to explain one more time

      and elaborate.

      iamnotamerican.com wrote:

      "You're probably one of these sus

      immigration 'consultants' (no offence to Andrew and all other honest

      consultants out there) who take fees for lost causes and keep

      telling them

      that they should try and not give up (as long as you keep getting

      your fees,

      that is)."

      As always, the iamnotamerican.com guy is very bizzare as it is his web

      site. Again, you are again DEAD WRONG as your many other conclusions

      are. I am an immigrant to Canada (I am NOT professional or semi-

      professional immigration consultant nor I have any intention of being

      it) and want all the best to every single immigrant - regardless of

      their status anywhere. (The 8 million undocumented immigrants in the US

      are NOT criminals due beign undocumented.)

      People who listned to advices of some "know-it-all's" and some

      "consultants" had never applied since they have had advised them not to

      apply; they have just bleow 75 points, earlier in the previous years.

      Now, many of them betwean 67 to 75 points are enjoying or are very close

      of enjoying life in Canada. No one can predict what things can change -

      in the life and in the process - so it is smarter to try to apply than

      to be desperate and affraid of what can go wrong and why a person can be

      refused. The whole deportation case can be won, or other amnesty laws

      (possible qualified amnesty by Bush might be proposed soon) or many

      other things... I am not saying that all or any of these things will

      happen, I am saying that life is changing and people are looking to the

      negative sides.

      Next it is not correct that the Canadina consulate always asks for the

      proof of the status. Even if that is the case (and it is NOT in ALL

      situation) the person in case might have the document to prove it since

      the deportation proceedings might go on and person has the right

      documents with it. You keep forgeting DIFFERENT SCENARIOS - that you

      don't know - and you are fixated on your own limited knowledge of

      proceedings.

      Interpretation requires inteligence and not limited interpretations like

      those two previous "wanna-be's".

      IGNORE "Nay-sayers"!!! They are everywhere. How many things were not

      done because of Nay-sayers!? How many people are succesfull despite of

      all their negativity that is camouphlaged in realism since they were

      motivated by it!?

      Webgirl, I am rooting for your friend to win the cases in both places

      and choos where you want to go. BEST WISHES!

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #18; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 12:04:00 GMT
    • in a recent article, webgirl (member15614.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.british_expats.com) said:

      honestly, iamnotamerican, why are you taking this thread so personally.

      Actually, I never take USEnet posts seriously or personally. However,

      your most recent (to which I am now replying) is personal, because it is so

      unappreciative and insulting.

      This is not an argument,

      No argument is coming from me at all. Sure, I am trying to point out

      the misinformation by someone else who is basing their responses on nothing

      but hope and assumptions (...and feng shui, and the moons aligning

      correctly, it seems) but not on your questions...but certainly no argument.

      i simply have a question, and this thread is suddently turning it into an egotrip.

      Hmm. This certainly surprises me since I answered your question (and

      you thanked me for my response). Of course, you then went on to add other

      information (to which I responded to that new information as well), though

      that new information doesn't change things since YOUR question assumed

      deportation, not an appeal of deportation or anything else.

      I really appreciate all the other people's polite replies

      How many people DID respond? A total of 3, it seems. Myself (as

      mentioned, you thanked me for my response), 'webcrawler' who essentially

      agreed (with some added detail) with my response, and 'cicero' who didn't

      respond to (or read, it seems, since NONE of his answers were based on it)

      your first question and chose instead to insult 'webcrawler' and myself.

      and please don't ruin this forum by being the rude one.

      Now, if anyone is being rude, it certainly is you in this case. Someone

      takes the time to assist with a question you have and your demonstrated

      turnaround (from a polite show of appreciation to calling that same person

      'rude' and basically specifically 'not thanking' them...THAT is not only

      rude, but ungrateful.

      I have been taking my time to respond to posts in various help related

      newsgroups (under different names, typically a different name for each

      group, depending on the topic) for over 10 years. Now, how long have YOU

      been helping people in USEnet?

      Unfortunately, it seems that you didn't appreciate my answer because it

      wasn't beautiful and positive. Sorry that I don't tap dance around the

      facts and give unrealistic hope. Let's look at the facts, shall we?

      Your question was simple: if one gets deported from the US (because of overstay), will one still get a chance applying to Canadian skill worker immigration?

      To which my response was:...While you certainly can apply, the fact you were deported will weighnegatively against your application...

      Of course, I should point out that your next post...and I notice on my

      news browser that it was about an hour before anyone else's post on this

      thread...was: hi, thanks for the answer... ...Many, many thanks.

      Whether your 'friend' is appealing a deportation order or not, it

      doesn't change your question...or my response. Your question assumed

      deportation. So did my answer. Now, if your friend wins his appeal, then

      your question would be different and so would my answer. Furthermore, if

      you had provided that information which you provided later, then my answer

      would have been different as well. Similar, but certainly different.

      Immigration is never a simple, direct issue.

      I think everyone knows that, but your question certainly was simple.

      Your question assumed deportation. Not pending deportation, not appeal of a

      deportation order, just deportation.

      If it is so obvious, why are there so many immigration lawyers and many of them specializing in deportation cases?

      The same reason there are so many injury lawyers...because it's often a

      relatively easy way to make money, with so many potential customers - and

      also many dupes for the less honest in those professions.

      Please think before you reply and try to make this room a pleasant environment for all.

      I would suggest you take your own advise before insulting someone who

      took the time to answer your question in future. Especially when that

      person answers your question in the context in which it was asked.

      For the record, I am replying to this after a number of days not because

      I want to continue this thread unnecessarily, but because I want to make

      sure you and other newcomers understand how NOT to respond to people who

      answer your questions.

      I also wanted to avoid posting it publicly, but the britishexpats

      address bounced (they seem to do that often) when I tried to send it

      privately.

      --

      Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.

      The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN

      Over 20 original designs, only at http://www.iamnotamerican.com .

      New designs added frequently. Custom designs/orders available.

      http://www.iamnotamerican.com

      Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.

      #19; Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:37:00 GMT
    • in article CnDKb.7881$BA6.380686.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.news20.bellglobal.com, DonP at

      dddd.immigrationlaw.todaysummary.com.hhhhhhh.net wrote on 1/6/04 10:45 AM:

      is never a simple, direct issue. If it is so obvious, why are there so many immigration lawyers and many of them specializing in deportation cases? Please think before you reply and try to make this room a pleasant environment for all. Webgirl, I think you would be better off not engaging in any flamewar with this jerk Trevor Wilson aka Trikky T. He has a real history on the Usenet for his impolite and personal attack on others. To answer your original question, your friend will not be automatically disqualified for Canadian immigration just because he has a deportation order. But it will make his case more complicated. He just needs to evaluate whether wasting application processing fee (CAD 550) is worth the try. In fact, if he doesn't see him leaving USA very soon, I don't see a reason not to give a try. But it would be worthwhile to seek professional assistance to file his case.

      i have been interested in this thread because my cousin's girlfriend was

      deported and was curious to know about chances of immigration. what does

      this tricky t fellow or wilson fellow have to do with anything? if it is

      another name for www.iamnotamerican.com, then looking at google (thank you

      for the suggestion) showed me that while both people may be a little

      opinionated at times, both have been quite helpful in this and other

      newsgroups where help was appreciated. i also looked at a number of entries

      by both names and did not see any rudeness or insults. i wish i could say

      the same about you. i see that you criticize someone who you say is being

      rude, by being rude and insulting. is that a double standard? i also see

      that www.iamnotamerican.com has answered many questions in a direct way and

      did not confuse anyone by avoiding the reality. you have not written before

      here and when you do write it is rude. i see also that you gave the same

      answer to the first question as www.iamnotamerican.com so why are you

      complaining?

      #20; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 08:59:00 GMT
    • We can overlook that iamnotamerican.com fellow just the few posts

      earlier said: I won't reply; he is back with bruised ago and

      additional elaborate nonsense.

      Amazing! Not only that he provided, in essence, completely inferior and

      limited advice, he also has a bruised ego and, again, unsuccesfully and

      misplaced, tries to teach webgirl - who was very polite -about

      politeness that is so much lacking in him.

      No one asked, for his, my, or anyones direct advice in the thread.

      There are number of people that are contributing here; certainly, it

      seems that his wrong advices, ego and rudeness will be not missed if he

      chooses to leave the group.

      After that we can put a side, particularly bad taste, and a low attempt

      for self-promotion, by using his bizarre commercial site for a name

      (nick) on this forum.

      If someone have chosen to response for truly pure reasons, than he would

      not need special thank you, or anything else.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #21; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:18:00 GMT
    • > My God! For once he's almost right ... It IS an administrative violation for which you can be removed, but it is a crime, but one which

      well well, another misfit attempt of phony US expert to give misleading

      advice. If you violate criminal law it is a crime. But what if you violate

      parking law, if we follow your failed logic it is a crime too. I think

      before you post here again you should read "law for dummies" book. if it

      exists, which is quite probable in canada

      is dealt with by administrative action and not the criminal justice

      wow, crime which is dealt with adminstrative action and not the criminal

      justice???? that's a breaking news for any lawyer i believe

      #22; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:47:00 GMT
    • Think a bit harder! If a person is in proceedings, he is not

      convincted. If the situation is different than ... but it is NOT!

      He has a right to fair proceedings and possible trail. He has a right

      to defend himself.

      There is, realistically, nothing to loose in applying, as I said

      earlier.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #23; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:11:00 GMT
    • hi, thanks for the answer. Well, i read some of the threads but didn't

      see any one that discuss deportation (just being illegal in the US).

      Could you please kindly point me to where the relevant threads are.

      Many, many thanks.

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #24; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 06:55:00 GMT
    • well, this situation happened to one of my friend here in the US. He is

      still fighting/appealing the deportation order (for overstaying, but no

      crimes committed). I wonder if he can still go to Canada or will he need

      a lawyer to apply and explain for him? Anyone has any suggestions?

      --

      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      #25; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 10:22:00 GMT